Why So Many Leaders Stop Growing

Mark Cole:
Welcome to the Maxwell Leadership Podcast. We want to add value to you today. We want to challenge you to go multiply value to others. And we’re going to do that by talking about why so many leaders stop growing. In fact, it was Benjamin Franklin that said, without continual growth and progress, such words as improvement, achievement and success have no meaning. John’s today, he’s teaching this lesson, Traci, at an event that you and I go to twice a year. It’s at an event where his 61,000. Now, if you can believe it, 61,000 coaches come in twice a year for a training and John starts challenging them on why so many leaders stop growing.

Mark Cole:
And Traci, it’s a pretty special environment. Isn’t.

Traci Morrow:
Sure is. I love that time because we meet other leaders who are hungry for growth and, and I find that every time Mark that I come come there, it’s not just the people that John brings on stage, but it’s the people in the crowd who come there, who I have great conversation with that inspire me to growth. You know, when you go to a growth event, a Maxwell growth event specifically, it isn’t just the stage, it’s the other people who you’re sitting next to, who you’re talking to out in the hallway that I come away so inspired with notes and notes and notes of ways that I want to, they inspire me to grow. What about you?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, it’s the same. It’s the same. And so I’m so excited to share John with you today, Podcast family listeners, viewers. And if you’d like to follow along, we have a fill in the blank resource that we wanna give you. You can find that at MaxwellPodcast.com/KeepGrowing. We will try to put some other things in there in our show notes today for you other podcasts to listen to. But go to MaxwellPodcast.com/KeepGrowing. You’ll see the link to view this podcast on our YouTube channel.

Mark Cole:
And we look forward to adding value to you. So here’s John. He’s going to talk to you and I about making sure that we’re a leader that keeps growing. Here’s John.

John Maxwell:
Whenever I write a book, when I’m finished writing that book, it immediately begins to get a little stale because I keep growing. And so, you know, 25 years later, the book’s down here, the words didn’t change, but I’m up here, so I’ve gotta go. So in all of your work that you do every, I mean, so in refreshing my material, I am continually updating it, you know, sometimes we like to say, okay, I developed this and it’s good and it’s set and I, I’ll never have to work on it again. That’s just not the way life really is. You continually have to refresh yourself. You refresh the material that you teach, update it, create it. What’s relevant now, what maybe doesn’t work as well as it used to. So there’s a continual desire to be relevant and continued desire to be fresh to people.

John Maxwell:
Now you’re the legs to the legacy. And so what happens is I give you my resources, my tools, but then you become the refresher. As you have experience and you work with people, you’ll get fresh thoughts, fresh illustrations, fresh ideas, and you just constantly, here’s what I know. A person that is growing is always renewing themselves. A person that doesn’t grow loves to talk about yesterday. Let me explain something to you. If what you did five years ago still excites you, you’re not growing now. I’ve had a wonderful life and I’ve had a lot of great experiences.

John Maxwell:
But when people say, what motivates you? What excites you? What thrills you now? What thrills me now was what I did five years ago. What thrills me now is what I’m doing now and how I’m learning and how I’m growing and how I’m improving myself and how I’m adjusting. If you have a finish line today, it’s a self imposed finish line, okay? In other words, when I make so much money, I won’t work anymore. When I get to a certain age, I’ll retire or I’ll change jobs. People have finish lines. What people don’t understand is if I have a finish line, when you cross it, you’re finished. What part of that excites you? What part of it excites you when you can walk into somebody’s life and say it’s over? You know, there are a lot of people that are already dead that just haven’t made it official. And I see them and I watch them and I think, is that it? I think for a lot of people, there is no finish line.

John Maxwell:
There’s no finish line in my life. There’s none. I don’t plan on crossing a finish line. When I came into this world, the game was already started. It was already. The game was already on. When I came to the world, I didn’t start it. And it’s gonna continue when I leave.

John Maxwell:
So I just got in the game for a period of time, and I got out of the game. But the game’s bigger than me. It’s longer than me. It’s enduring. I just have a shot at putting a contribution in one stage of life. And so when I think of where we are and what we’re accomplishing, you are legs to my legacy. But you know what that means? It means I’m gonna die before you do, but you’re gonna continue on. And as long as you live, I’m still living.

John Maxwell:
See, when you pour your life into people, honestly, you never die. You leave them, but you live in them. See, a legacy isn’t something I give to you. It’s something I leave in you. I play a big game, and the big game has no finish line to it. So now what happens is, since there’s no finishing line in my life, what do I continue to do? I continue growing and pressing and expanding and learning and pushing and developing and adjusting and changing. And that never stops.

Ela Bijlani:
My father passed, and I was in a really difficult time, really questioning what is life really about? One day, we’re all going to be gone. What makes you think that you live that life? Well, I was really looking for answers. I met a girl who told me about John Maxwell. The more I looked at the information that I found out, I realized, well, he’s really offering all the resources that I’m looking for right now, which was amazing. In three days, there was a conference. I was on a call with Kelly. I had this feeling that I just really needed to be there. I got in the car and I drove.

Ela Bijlani:
When I walked in and I saw the sign, welcome home. I thought, wow, that’s amazing. Kelly introduced me to Mark, and she told them that, you know, I just found out about John Maxwell three days ago, and here I am. I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into, but it felt so good.

Mark Cole:
Come right up here. Ella. This is all unscripted. She’s one of our Maxwell leadership certified new team members. John. She said, I really want to do more with my life. I want to begin coaching. I want to do something with my life.

Mark Cole:
And John, her friend said, well, you’ve got to talk to John Maxwell team and be on the Maxwell leadership team. She said, who’s John Maxwell? I think this is drop dead funny. She said, I have a saying that says, when the student is ready, the teacher appears, and I’m ready. Show me the way.

John Maxwell:
To Ela… Where have you been?

Ela Bijlani:
I remember John’s question, “Where have you been? So I decided to take action to achieve my dream. Now I know it was the best decision I’ve made in my life because I get to do what I love to do most, which is helping others to achieve their goals and dreams. Now I know that it’s never too late to be what you might have been. Your story is waiting to be told. Learn more at MaxwellLeadership.com/JoinTheTeam.

Mark Cole:
Hey, welcome back everybody. I go back now after hearing John talk and I go back to the Benjamin Franklin quote that just absolutely tells us improvement, achievement, success has no meaning if you don’t put yourself into a continual growth and a continual challenge to progress. So, Traci, I’m glad to do this. I’ve watched you, we’ve been friends, we’ve been co leaders for some time now and boy, growing is the ticket.

Traci Morrow:
Yes, it certainly is because I get sick of myself really fast. Yeah, I have to be keep growing in order to outgrow myself, right?

Mark Cole:
That’s exactly right.

Traci Morrow:
So jumping right in. John Said talks about a continual desire to be relevant and fresh to people. And one of the things that he said is that he talks about his resources becoming stagnant as soon as he releases them, as soon as he writes them or puts it out into the world. And I can so relate to that. I find that that sometimes freezes me up as a leader from either writing something or creating something because I feel like, oh, I don’t want to let that go because I know I’m going to. As soon as I release it, it’s going to, I’m going to, I’m not going to like it. I know as soon as I release that in three months, I know I’m going to have outgrown that. And then I want to, want to change it.

Traci Morrow:
And so I’m curious, does this freeze you up and how do you push past that to help? I know most of us are like the rest of us, so how do you push past that and release it and just keep growing and making more?

Mark Cole:
Well, I think one is I love having done my best work to date on a project and when I feel like I’ve done my best and I release that, then I expect it to impact other people. And so one is to whom much is given, much is required. Get it, get it out and give it to people. The second thing that I realize is I don’t get attached to it so that it can change, so that it can be a snapshot in time of my thinking. But it’s not the end all, end all the Bible, if you will, of my thoughts on that particular subject. And then the final thing that I constantly do is make sure that the principles of what I’ve written or what I’ve said is still applicable with new concepts or new, new application. John says this before Traci. You’ve heard him say this, but he says the saddest day in his life as an author is the day after he turns in his manuscript because there’s already something different or new or exciting that he could put to the content.

Mark Cole:
It’s funny because in the publishing world, many of you listening to the podcast probably know this, but you hand in a manuscript and then it’s anywhere from three months to a year before that book hits a bookshelf. And so oftentimes, when the book’s hitting, John’s going, oh my, I wouldn’t have said that. Oh my, what about this? That’s on a good side. The other side is he’s already written another book and he’s excited about the new book, and we hadn’t even released the past one yet. But I think it’s a funny story, but at the same time, I think it really is the product of people that are committed to growing that yesterday’s discovery, yesterday’s thought, yesterday’s idea is dated before 24 hours is out.

Traci Morrow:
Yeah, that, that, that’s so true. And speaking of yesterday, you know, when you go to make a resume, your what is a resume? Your resume is everything that happened yesterday. You aren’t writing about what’s going to happen tomorrow or what you’re what’s currently going on because you don’t know how it’s going to turn out. And so your resume is really your best work from your yester. And so I’m just, I’m just curious, Speaking to our CEOs, our hiring people who are bringing on and have hopes and dreams for their, their team and their staff. What is something that you can tell that you do personally when you are. How. How does a leader attract a growing team member that isn’t just relying on their yesterdays? How do you ensure that you are bringing on a new team member who is still having a growth mind?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, so growth is so important to us. We believe that coachability, the ability to learn from others and learn from experiences, is the most attractive trait of a leader. And we believe the greatest discipline of a leader is the discipline of growing, of bettering yourself self leadership is what we call it. And so because those are so important to us, coachability, you’re learning and experiencing fresh, exciting new ways to be better in every environment. And because growth is a discipline that we believe needs to be at the top of the discipline of a leader, we ask questions. There’s not a interview that does not have the question, what are you currently learning? And I just sit and wait and watching people have perplexity with that question or can’t get the answer to that question and is an indicator to me on how well they’re going to fit into our environment. Will you be able to express what you’re learning and how you are applying it? Then another question I ask all the time is, what’s changed about your leadership in the past year? What is different about the way you lead right now? Now, I don’t just reserve those questions just for our interview process. I ask our leaders that all the time.

Mark Cole:
I ask Chris Goede, who is also on the podcast, often I ask him this. Hey, what are you learning right now? What’s different about your leadership? And I watch the freshness of that question, the relevancy of that question, the transferable qualities of the answer to that question, to gauge how well that leader is effectively growing and staying relevant in today’s leadership economy. Hey, and by the way, right now is the greatest time to be learning things new than we’ve had in many, many years because of AI, because of what role AI is playing in every facet of leadership of humanity. It’s a good time to be learning and growing. What I do every. Every morning, I do my quiet time, I do my devotions, I do my kind of setting the stage for the day. And I spend 30 minutes in AI just spending time learning and growing. Cause I’m getting left behind because I’m only spending 30 minutes and not three hours.

Mark Cole:
So I’m just spending time doing that. Every leader needs to have a way that they are growing to be relevant.

Traci Morrow:
Yes. Okay, well, now we know your tricks.

Mark Cole:
That’s right.

Traci Morrow:
Those are great questions. And I know that’s going to help somebody. I’ve certainly wrote them down. Okay, so then John goes on to say that, you know, we want to be a person who doesn’t talk, you know, stay and live in yesterday. And so how does a leader. I think everyone can. If you’ve been a leader for any amount of time, how does a leader not look backward? If you’ve had any kind of a big win in your leadership journey, and. And then afterwards, a series of maybe lesser successes afterwards.

Traci Morrow:
I’ll use John as an example. You and I were talking a little bit afterwards, and I’m like, is this okay? For me to say this. And you said yes, absolutely. That’s great. So John’s book, most of us know him, many of us depending on our, our age know him as a 20 from the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. That’s like his biggest book of all time. And, and so he’s written close to a hundred books, but nothing has really hit to that degree. Some have come very close and continue to come close and some even outsell depending on the month, as you said, depending on the month, outsell that book.

Traci Morrow:
And so with the five levels of leadership being one, developing the leader within you and 2.0 being another one. But we don’t really hear John keep pointing back to that book. Every time we hear John speak, he’ll reference it or something from that book. Absolutely. But how, how do we. So he’s a great example of live practicing what he preaches. But how does a leader. It’s, it’s very difficult for those of us who aren’t him and who are coming up in our leadership.

Traci Morrow:
And any whatever age or stage of leadership you’re at. How do you not look backward or keep trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice? Of course we all would like to, but how not keep looking over your shoulder and craving that feeling again, that time again, that season again. And keep a moving forward mindset and your eyes forward.

Mark Cole:
Yeah, I think so. One is, I think you spend more time anticipating than reflecting. You spend more time creating than celebrating. I think it truly the answer to your question, Tracy, comes in your daily discipline. And too many people spend time reflecting on yesterday because it was so good and not enough time on anticipating what they can do from the accomplishments of yesterday. That’s why we literally put a rule in around here of a 24 hour rule. We will lament, cry, scream, whatever we have to do for 24 hours on something that was a mess up, that was a challenge, that was a failure, if you will. But we spend no more time than 24 hours on celebrating either.

Mark Cole:
We can have the best of the best, win our super bowl, whatever that is, have a Grammy moment. 24 hours later, we’re back in the focus of what’s Next. And I think that mindset of going, we will not allow ourselves to lament, we will not allow ourselves to celebrate for more than 24 hours. Gives you a forward facing approach, approach to leadership. So we put that in place. Another thing that we do is in our debriefs. We debrief quickly so we can execute even more quickly. So debriefs are meant to reflect and talk about an event or an idea or something that just happened, but it’s always with a bent toward improvement.

Mark Cole:
We will be in our meetings, our events with 3,000, 4,000 coaches coming in. And in the middle of the event, we will have a debrief of what we need to do next time to get better. Why? Because it’s most fresh when it’s right in front of you. Too often successful people look at past accomplishment for too long, and it does not give them a chance to anticipate future accomplishments long enough. And that’s what we’re. That’s what we try to discipline ourselves to get out of.

Traci Morrow:
Yeah, that’s good. So talking finish line, he. He talks about, you know, not having a finish line, but I think it’s also very human for people to have those goals. I think it starts when we’re young. The finish line mentality might be, you know, at first when you graduate, and then when you get your first job in the career line that you’re looking for, maybe it’s buying your first home or maybe it’s, you know, getting. Making X amount of money, getting your first raise, getting, you know, maybe it’s having your first home or, you know, whatever it is, getting married. How do you. How do you then get people.

Traci Morrow:
Then they sit in that, and I think that’s the trap. And then you hear that message from John and you’re like, wait, what? Or. Or what’s next? Like, then. Then that restless feeling of, so now I’m supposed to sit here in this career or this seat for the next 50 years, and that can feel very much like I crossed that finish line. And now I sit here for 50 years. Excuse me. And I think that’s what John is really talking about, and I think that can be both. Oh, no.

Traci Morrow:
Now what? I never thought about that before. What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to go back to school and set a new go. I supposed to. And so talking to those leaders who they also might feel a relief of, oh, this isn’t the end of my story. This. There is more out there. How do you have little. How do you now set up a new mindset for those leaders who.

Traci Morrow:
Who are sitting now on the other side of their finish line and they’re just hearing about this for the first time. Do you set a series of little mini finish lines? Or what does that look like for you and for John? What do you guys talk about? What can you play that out for leaders?

Mark Cole:
Yeah. So for people that’s kind of sitting on the sidelines and feeling like, whoa, I’d never heard, I shouldn’t have finished. Let me give you a couple of thoughts from ours. And there’s people that love retirement. There’s people that love this right here. I think that it really is as simple as John says. What part about being finished does not scare you? I’m done. Never be done.

Traci Morrow:
Yeah.

Mark Cole:
Never get out of the game.

Ela Bijlani:
Scary.

Mark Cole:
So if you are sitting on the sidelines and you’re going, wow, I thought playing golf every single morning was going to be a lot more exciting. Here’s some real simple advice for you. Get back in the game. Go create a new game. Get significance and meaning into your life because you do not want to be finished. I thought of how John taught today and I remember him teaching this live. And as I heard it today, when he said the game was going before I got here and the game will be going after I am done. And Tracy, I’ve heard him say that before, but today it really struck me that the idea of finish lines is really a self absorbed concept.

Mark Cole:
It’s as if your lifespan was incorrect. You were supposed to be done at 65 with life. No, I think we graduate and look for new things and things to anticipate beyond a work anniversary or beyond a work deadline. Everything needs to be building in your life to live and leave a legacy that will impact beyond you. And something about John’s teaching today really grabbed me to this concept all of us need to be talking about. And that is what are we doing right now that will outlast our lifespan? What are we contributing right now? And for some of you, you’re not blessed with a job, J O B like mind where you anticipate it every single day, or a lifestyle or a life mission like John’s where he anticipates it every day. But find something to anticipate in it. Find a reason that you’re going and living out that 8 hours, 10 hours, 12 hours a day.

Mark Cole:
That is beyond the concept of a job. That is beyond the concept of retirement. That is beyond the concept of a finish line. Because when you self impose a finish line, there is a mindset that happens that you stop living life to the fullest and start living it in a reflection mode. And I think that’s where John and I and Tracy are really challenge you today. Don’t ever stop growing. Continue challenging yourself to better days ahead.

Traci Morrow:
I love that. I agree. I sign off on that. I’m right there with you. Which I think Leads up to a great question that you and I had kind of talked a little bit about. And I said, this is one I’d love to. To land on and close out on and inspire people with, because I think this is a closing jump off for people to listen to inspire them, take some notes on and then, and then leave them to think on whatever time of day you’re listening to, but just to leave you to turn off this podcast thinking about but what, what causes a leader to stop growing so that they can listen with the mindse. I don’t want to do this because sometimes you can think, oh, that’s not me.

Traci Morrow:
Oh, that’s not me. So I don’t need to listen. But listening with the mindset of this could be me. I don’t want this to be me. How can I protect myself so this is never me? And how can I encourage my team so that this is not ever us? So what causes a leader in your experience to stop growing? Mark?

Mark Cole:
Yeah, you know, thank you for asking that, Tracy. When I was listening to this lesson early this morning and just kind of contemplating on it, I thought about the phenomenon that we’ve all experienced as leaders over the last couple of years, and that is people silently quitting. They show up, but they’re not really there. They’re not engaged, they’re not passionate. And we coined that as silently quitting. And I’ve obviously worked for years with leaders that are phasing out of calling. And for the last five or six years, we’ve been talking about succession around here, working yourself out of a job, John Maxwell handing his baton off. And I started thinking, okay, what are the reasons that people quit, that people stop growing? And I’ve got, John gave us one, and that is a finish line.

Mark Cole:
They just, sometime in life, they just superimposed upon themselves a finish line, a goal. That was a destination to your question, Tracy John and I don’t look for finish lines. We don’t look for many finish lines. We look for mile markers. We look for indicators that we’re on the journey, going somewhere and that we’re accomplishing something. And that leads to the next mile, to the next frontier, to the next mountain summit. And so life is not meant to be finished. It’s meant to continue.

Mark Cole:
It’s meant to give to others. And so a self imposed finish line. Another reason that people stop growing is because they get tired. Everything worthwhile is uphill all the way and people just get weary. In well doing, they get weary of the grind. I get that. Find ways to have nourishment in your life. But don’t let the off ramp be a finish line to stop growing.

Mark Cole:
Another reason that people stop growing is they don’t see any progress. There’s no progress. They’re in a dry season. They’re in a moment that they’re just not seeing fruit. And I just gotta tell you, sometimes it’s time to fertilize, sometimes it’s time to plant, sometimes it’s time to plow. You won’t always see fruit. That’s why it needs to be a discipline and not a reward. Growth is not a reward for something.

Mark Cole:
Successful growth is like a seed planting. Fruit will come, but you gotta keep planting that seed. Another reason that people stop growing is loneliness. You know, when you are growing, when you are putting a challenge on yourself to become something different? John says the only guarantee for a better tomorrow is growth today. And by the way, growth means change, and change means unrecognizable qualities. I want you to grow so much after listening to this podcast that at the end of this year, you have to reintroduce yourself to yourself. I want you to not recognize yourself. But that journey of reinventing yourself is lonely.

Mark Cole:
So people stop growing because of loneliness. Another reason this is not you. This is the people that didn’t show up to the podcast today. But another reason people don’t grow is because of laziness. They just are lazy. Now, again, that’s not anybody that’s listening today. That’s all the people that didn’t show up today. But laziness is a reason that people just go, I don’t want to grow.

Mark Cole:
Another reason people stop growing is distractions. They become distracted. They’re growing here, but then they start growing over there. They’re kind of like fire, aim ready. They’re just all over the place. And that goes back to some intentional conversations that we’ve had in a couple of podcasts together. You’ve got to eliminate distraction. And then finally, I think people stop growing because they stop sharing.

Mark Cole:
They become so. They become obese in learning in lessons, and they’re not letting it flow through them. There is something incredibly rewarding, engaging, and sticky to growth when you’re giving it to others. And if you’re growing right now and you’re not telling some people about it, chances are you’ll stop growing because you stop sharing. Your growth is not for you. It’s for others. And so there’s just some areas there that I wanted to share with you today on why I think so many Leaders stop growing along the way. I hope that will help you.

Mark Cole:
It certainly did help me today when I went, oh, where am I tired? Where am I not seeing progress? Where am I a little lazy and lonely and distracted? What am I learning that I’m no longer sharing with others? I’ll leave the podcast today recording and I’ll go to a learning lunch and it’s my learning lunch to one of my leaders to share with them what I’m learning. Because we need to be sharing. In fact, speaking of sharing, one of our podcast listeners, you didn’t give us your name. It may be because you didn’t want us to know what’s getting ready to happen to you, but we had this great question that I want to share with you. It’s great because it’s very relevant to today’s lesson. Here’s the question. I will be getting a promotion in the near future and I want to make sure that I prepare well. How do I balance growing and moving forward, forward while remembering where I started and what I would say to you, my dear friend number one, when you are anticipating the future, spend very, very little time on reflecting on the past.

Mark Cole:
Let the past be the reason that you got the opportunity for the future. I’ve watched way too many people walk into a new opportunity, spending more time on what to take with them, rather than freeing up their bandwidth to take on the new challenges of the opportunity. So I want to caution you that now is not a good time to be remembering where you came from, where you started. When you get some success in the new role, take some time. But as you’re anticipating that new role, don’t let the anchors or the weights of yesterday’s success stop you from empty handed reaching for the opportunity ahead ahead of you. You will miss the possibilities of tomorrow by focusing too much on where it got started. Now again, there’s another lesson for another day on how to stay humble after you see success and remember humble beginnings, but not right before the opportunity. Get ready, get excited.

Mark Cole:
I can’t wait to hear about the promotion. And if you’re making a lot of money, I can’t wait to get some of the commission with you. So let’s just, let’s look forward together and you can support, equip, you can do some stuff. I’m so excited for you, podcast listener, and all of you podcast listeners and viewers for the success that you get when you apply the principles of this podcast. Because that’s why we do what we do. That’s why we want everybody in the podcast to get value and to feel the chance of opportunity like this podcast listener, viewer is having right now, because we want to add value to you. We want to make a difference for you so that you’ll make a difference for others, because everyone deserves to be led well.

Transcript created by Castmagic.